Conrad Murray Interview aus dem Gefängnis
Pubblicato in data 02/apr/2013
Conrad Murray telephone interview with Anderson Cooper on Anderson Cooper 360. But at the end of the interview, Conrad Murray breaks out in a song - "The Little Boy that Santa Claus Forgot". Now that's entertainment. (please excuse me snickering in the background as Murray sings.
Transcript of Murray's Anderson Cooper Interview
But now to our top story tonight. Also a 360 exclusive. Dr. Conrad Murray, Michael Jackson's former physician, a man with the training to save lives and the solemn duty to preserve it. The question is, did he fail on both counts? A jury thought so, convicted him of involuntary manslaughter in the death of Michael Jackson.
He is appealing that verdict, even as a civil lawsuit begins today. Jackson's mother and children suing the concert promoter AEG Live with big money at stake. And Dr. Murray could be at the center of that trial, if he's willing to testify.
Tonight, only on 360, his first interview since being imprisoned. But first, Randi Kaye has the background starting with that fateful call to 911.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The desperate 911 call came from inside Michael Jackson's rented mansion. It was just before 12:30 p.m., June 25th, 2009 in Los Angeles.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's pumping, he's pumping his chest but he's not responding to anything, sir.
KAYE: The king of pop's heart had stopped. He was unconscious. His personal physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, who can be heard in the background on the call, was attempting CPR.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Did anybody witness what happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. Just the doctor, sir. The doctor's been the only one here.
KAYE: Hours later, his family broke the news to the world.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The legendary king of pop, Michael Jackson, passed away.
KAYE: Immediately the investigation focuses on Dr. Murray. The cardiologist hired to care for the pop star during his upcoming concert tour. In July 2009, a major bombshell. A source tells CNN Dr. Murray gave Michael Jackson the powerful sedative, Propofol, within 24 hours of his death. Propofol is usually administered through an I.V. drip and produces such a comatose state, it isn't supposed to be used outside a hospital setting.
In August, Dr. Murray makes his first public comments since his star patient's death.
CONRAD MURRAY, MICHAEL JACKSON'S PHYSICIAN: I have done all I could do. I told the truth and I have faith the truth will prevail.
KAYE (on camera): According to the police affidavit, Conrad Murray told detectives he'd been treating Michael Jackson for insomnia for weeks. He said he tried lots of other drugs, but that the pop star demanded Propofol. On the day he died, Conrad Murray said he gave Jackson 25 milligrams of it at 10:40 in the morning. 911 was called less than two hours after that.
(Voice-over): Michael Jackson's death is officially ruled a homicide. In February, 2010, Dr. Conrad Murray is charged with involuntary manslaughter. He pleads not guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dr. Murray did not cause the death of Michael Jackson.
KAYE: That would be up to a jury to decide. In September 2011, more than two years after Michael Jackson's death, Conrad Murray goes to trial. Jackson's former head of logistics testifies Murray was hiding vials at Jackson's home before paramedics arrived.
ALBERTO ALVAREZ, MICHAEL JACKSON'S FORMER HEAD OF LOGISTICS: He reached over, grabbed a handful of vials, and then he reached out to me and said here, put these in a bag.
KAYE: Murray's own iPhone recording of Jackson from May 10th, 2009, was played in court. Jackson sounds wasted and is slurring his words. Listen.
MICHAEL JACKSON, KING OF POP: I love them. I love them because I didn't have a childhood. I had no childhood. I feel their pain. I feel their hurt.
KAYE: Dr. Murray's interview with detectives is also played for the jury.
MURRAY: I needed to go to the bathroom. Then I came back to his bedside and was stunned in the sense that he wasn't breathing.
KAYE: On November 7th, 2011, Dr. Conrad Murray is found guilty of involuntary manslaughter and sentenced to four years in prison.
(On camera): But it doesn't end there. Michael Jackson's mother and children are bringing a wrongful death lawsuit against AEG, the concert promoter for Jackson's doomed comeback tour. Katherine Jackson says AEG is to blame for the loss of her son. The whole case may hinge on an e-mail written just 11 days before Michael Jackson's death. It could be a smoking gun.
(Voice-over): In the e-mail, AEG's CEO tells the show's director to remind Dr. Murray what is expected of him, and that AEG is paying his salary. Jackson's family believes AEG pressured Murray, even threatened his $150,000 a month job as the singer's personal physician. All so Michael Jackson could rehearse, despite his fragile health. AEG denies this, saying it was Jackson who chose and handled Murray.
Michael Jackson died just two weeks before his tour was set to open in London.
Randi Kaye, CNN, Atlanta.
COOPER: Well, joining us now by phone right now from the Los Angeles county jail is Conrad Murray. Also with us, his attorney, Valerie Wass.
Dr. Murray, appreciate you being with us. There are a lot of questions I'd like to ask you obviously about this AEG Live trial. I know you can't answer them or won't. Have you been subpoenaed to testify in the trial and would you in fact be willing to give testimony in this trial if you were?
MURRAY:At this time, I have not been subpoenaed, and I am not interested in giving testimony in the trial.
COOPER: Why is that?
MURRAY: I will not -- I will invoke my Fifth Amendment right because at this time there is an appeal that is in progress and depends on what happens to that. You know, thee is -- in the event that there is a future trial, I do not want to have any issues of self-incrimination.
COOPER: I want to ask you about that appeal coming up. But first, just a couple other questions. At the heart of this trial, the AEG trial, is a simple question. Were you an AEG employee, someone they had a responsibility for, or were you an employee of Michael Jackson? Can you answer that question?
VALERIE WASS, ATTORNEY FOR CONRAD MURRAY: I don't want Dr. Murray to answer that question.
MURRAY: No, I cannot. Not at this time.
COOPER: OK. I understand that. Can I ask you, do you know -- I mean, do you know the answer to that question?
COOPER: OK. You've always maintained your innocence, Dr. Murray, and as I said, you're appealing the decision. I do want to get to that. But do you feel any guilt over the death of Michael Jackson?
MURRAY: I am an innocent man, Anderson. I maintain that innocence. I must tell you, I am extremely sorry that Michael has passed on. It's a tremendous loss for me. It's a burden I have been carrying for the longest while and it's a burden I will carry for an indefinite period of time. The loss is just overwhelming. He was very close to me, I was close to him. He was an absolutely great friend.
And to be honest, I became a sounding board for Michael. He offloaded and regurgitated everything that was bad in his past and everything that was dark. And I have been the absorbent capacity for that. He has --
COOPER: Was that part of the problem --
MURRAY: And I carried those --
COOPER: Was that part of --
MURRAY: Those secrets --
COOPER: Was that part of the problem that --
MURRAY: I carried in my heart for him.
COOPER: Was that part of the problem that you felt you were a friend to him? As a doctor, is it proper to be friends with a patient?
WASS: I don't want him to answer that, either.
WASS: I don't want to get into anything that could possibly incriminate him.
COOPER: OK. Let me ask you about Propofol. As you know, it's supposed to be administered in a hospital. It's a sedative used for surgery and you certainly were not the first doctor to give Michael Jackson Propofol. But you did order a lot of it. And as a doctor who swore to do no harm, I guess I just still don't understand how you could give this clearly troubled person this powerful sedative in a non-hospital setting?
MURRAY: I think that's a very good question, Anderson. The thing about it is I -- nobody knows but I basically was doing my endeavor to get Michael away from Propofol. Yes, indeed, I did order Propofol to his home but I was not the one that brought Propofol into his home. I met him at his own stash.
I did not agree with Michael, but Michael felt that, you know, it was not an issue because he had been exposed to it for years and he knew exactly how things worked. And given the situation at the time, it was my approach to try to get him off of it, but Michael Jackson was not the kind of person you can just say put it down and he's going to do that.
COOPER: But as a doctor, though --
MURRAY: So my entire approach may not have been an orthodox approach, but my intentions were good.
COOPER: As a doctor, though, aren't you the one who is supposed to be in a position to say to a patient, I will no longer treat you if you do not follow my instructions? Because from the time you got hired in March of 2009, according to prosecutors, you started ordering Propofol in April and between then and June, you ordered more than four gallons of the stuff.
MURRAY: You see, Anderson, the whole story was not told in court. I was offered to be Michael's doctor on the tour in December of 2008, and you know. And even after that, the contract said I worked from May to June, but certainly I worked before that.
COOPER: But you did order all that Propofol.
MURRAY: So there -- there is Propofol that I met his home and I used it. Certainly, you know, again, as I said, I was trying to take the item away from Michael that he -- he could have a more normal lifestyle. It did not agree with him, whether it was on the concert tour or not. I did not. You know, was it rough for me the day after -- again, in retrospect but my intentions were to get the thing away and I succeeded. I was able to wean him off of it. That was three days before he passed away. There was absolutely no Propofol given to that man.
COOPER: But you keep saying you were helping him sleep. Propofol, though, doesn't actually restore someone's body. They don't -- I mean, sleep, you go into REM sleep, it's a dream state, you're actually restored when you wake up. Propofol basically shuts your brain off and acts as a depressant on your central nervous system. So while you say you were helping him sleep, he actually wasn't waking up recharged, correct?
MURRAY: That's a good question again. If you look at my police interview, two and a half hours, I mentioned that I explained to Michael that this is an artificial way of considering sleep. It was basically sedation, minimal sedation.
COOPER: So it wasn't actually helping him rest.
MURRAY: Well, you know, again, as I said, I met Michael in the situation. My approach of getting it away from him may not have met -- been satisfactory to you but I succeeded up until three days prior to him passing, I was able to get him off of that. There was some other issues. Surreptitiously Michael -- in retrospect, that I learned, I didn't know he was an addict, he was going to Dr. Kline's office and being loaded up with humongous, you know, levels of Demerol.
COOPER: I know you're talking about --
MURRAY: And that was his addiction. And basically this (INAUDIBLE) was causing his insomnia and -- because that's a huge side effect.
COOPER: You're talking about Dr. Arnie --
MURRAY: What's that?
COOPER: You're talking about Dr. Arnie Kline.
COOPER: Who did not testify at the trial and I know that's part of your appeal which I want to talk to you about after the break. But you said that you didn't know that Michael Jackson was taking other drugs. I mean there were prescription bottles all around his bed from other doctors, and I think any outside observer who didn't even have any medical access to Michael Jackson could have probably told you -- I mean, anybody looking at Michael Jackson over the years could probably tell you he was doing something.
You're saying you had no clue he was taking other drugs?
MURRAY: What I tell you, you know, I don't think the question as asked is accurate. If I went to your medicine cabinet now, Anderson, or in your home, I can find pills that maybe your doctor gave you six months ago or a year ago. And you may not be taking it. That does not mean you're seeing the physician.
COOPER: Right, but, sir, you would not find Ativan and Valium and things which are depressants and things which can actually slow your breathing which in addition to taking Propofol can actually cause cardiac arrest.
MURRAY: Well, let's look at the testament. I -- there were Ativan pills that were prescribed to Michael that my name was on those bottles and there were directions how to take them. But there were other pills that they found in the room and some of the items that they found and placed in evidence, I did not even see them. If you look at what happened in the crime scene or the house scene, these are (INAUDIBLE). The coroner's investigator admitted that she was moving items without a glove and putting them in different areas and taking pictures.
So when you saw them on the nightstand, that's not exactly where she's found them. They were not actually in my view.
COOPER: The other thing that prosecutors have said, and that your defense said that Michael Jackson self-administered a fatal dose of Propofol. That was your defense. The jury did not believe that or prosecutors also said even if that was true, the fact that you left this patient alone with Propofol in his condition was negligent.
Do you feel again any guilt about leaving him alone?
MURRAY: Let's talk about that. First of all, I did not leave Propofol for him to access. I did not leave Propofol for him to reach and get it. I did not leave Propofol in a drip. There was nothing like that. Even though Dr. Schafer during the trial said that he could have gotten up and used a roller, and open up, and somebody said he could reach up and find it, I left nothing such -- no such item in his reach. He was not on a Propofol infusion or a drip. Not at all. Absolutely zilch.
COOPER: But you're saying you didn't leave Propofol within his reach. How long were you gone for that he was somehow able to go somewhere in his room, according to your defense, find Propofol, get an injectable and inject it into himself?
MURRAY: Basically, when I left Michael, there was no further requirement for me to monitor Michael. There was no monitoring requirement for a patient who does not have heart failure or cardiomiopathy or some other condition where they have fluid retention, they have renal failure that requires monitoring when you're on a normal saline drip which is plain salt water.
COOPER: So you continue to maintain you did not give Michael Jackson Propofol on the day he died?
MURRAY: I did not give Michael Jackson a Propofol drip. Around 10:40 that day, after he really begged and cried and he looked so -- it was such a painful condition to see this man that was about to lose his entire potential, his fortune and empire, I agreed to give him a 25 milligram slow injection. That was it. You know? He -- I was not even expecting to give him sedation but he got it. He was sedated, he went to sleep and I watched him. I sat there for at least 30 minutes.
I was able to speak on the phone, accept calls. He was fine. Everything was great. When I left his bedside, I was absolutely comfortable that Propofol was no longer a factor. Done.
COOPER: We have to take a break.
MURRAY: I did not go outside of the -- of the master suite. The master suite is subdivided, it has a foyer, has a bedroom, it has a sitting area in the bedroom. The adjacent room is a dressing suite, then it goes into the vanity and the toilet and the bath which is further down the road.
You know, I wanted this man to sleep. And once I was comfortable and I moved away from his bedside, he was about to -- yes, I stayed in the adjacent chamber and I used the phone, et cetera, et cetera, but I was not worried about him. Actually, I was already packed and ready to go home.
COOPER: But again, you're using that word sleep, and again, Propofol doesn't make somebody sleep. So I know you weren't giving -- you say you were trying to reduce the amount you were giving him over time, but --
MURRAY: Let's change it and let's call it minimal sedation. COOPER: All right. We have to take a break, Dr. Murray. We're going to take a short break. And I want to talk to you, I want to talk to your attorney about your appeal and some other things when we come back.
Again, just a short break. Also, later, more breaking news in the shooting of the Texas district attorney and his wife. An account from a neighbor that you'll only see right here about what happened shortly before the murders. We'll be right back.
COOPER: And welcome back. We're talking exclusively tonight with Dr. Conrad Murray, now serving a four-year sentence for involuntary manslaughter in the death of Michael Jackson. He is going to be appealing that verdict. He hopes to get his medical license back. I'm going to talk to him about his appeal.
Jury selection in a civil trial just got under way today. Jackson's mother and kids suing AEG Live which is the concert promoters who are managing the pop star's comeback. The Jackson family says that they were responsible for hiring and keeping Dr. Murray. AEG maintains that it did not employ Murray, that Jackson himself did, and therefore, they are not liable.
Again, Dr. Conrad Murray joining us by phone from jail, along with Valerie Wass, his attorney here in New York.
Dr. Murray, I think, you know, there is a perception out there, and I want you to be able to respond to it. I think a lot of people here that you had debts, that you were going to be paid $150,000 a month to care for Michael Jackson while he was giving those concerts, and because of that, you were basically willing to do whatever he asked, giving him the Propofol which, as you say, is highly unusual. No -- really no other doctor except one other case I have ever heard of would recommend or give Propofol in the way you did in a home setting, with the kind of equipment you had.
What is not true about that perception?
MURRAY: Well, first of all, you know, I have never been money cabbaged (ph). I have never been envious of anyone. My whole life has been based upon making everyone else better. And I am very sympathetic to the cause of humanity and I have an extremely intense emotional conscience.
One thing that, you know, or was not said in the trial and certainly things are suppressed. But if you take for example, you know, the issue with using Propofol in the home and maybe I was paid money for that's why I did it, that's not the case. Different example here. In California, the California Medical Board now has a case number -- administrative (INAUDIBLE) against a Dr. S. Markman.
Dr. Markman is a defendant of the California Medical Board because he had been treating his daughter at home with Propofol three times weekly for genital pain for at least five years minimum. COOPER: Yes, but Dr. Murray --
MURRAY: More than 500 times. And the medical expert --
COOPER: Dr. Murray, I actually --
COOPER: Yes, I actually know about that case, and the medical equipment that that man has been using was far more advanced than the medical equipment you had.
MURRAY: That's not true because the medical equipment is -- Dr. Schafer says in his report he has been told by the man that he has those medical equipment. No one has verified that he has the equipment. But the fact is, Dr. Schafer finds no contention at all with this man using Propofol at home and he is doing this concurrently while he's also having me impaled to the cross.
COOPER: But you would --
MURRAY: He says --
COOPER: You would agree, sir, that -- I mean, when you -- when you first heard about Michael Jackson wanting Propofol, you yourself thought this was highly unusual.
MURRAY: I did not -- I did not like it.
COOPER: Let me ask you about your appeal. I know you are very hopeful on this appeal. What to you is your best -- the best case you have going for the appeal, you think, Dr. Murray? Then I'm going to ask your attorney as well.
MURRAY: Well, certainly I believe that I was not given due process. I think that the judge was clearly not impartial. I think that the district attorney David Baldwin did something that was so absurd, he altered evidence in open courtroom. Could you imagine that? I -- if I had to do this again, that's the one thing I would never do. I would never sit quietly in the courtroom and have a district attorney tear open and destroy the integrity of evidence when there was no reason to do that.
That was not the only time. There were so many issues of irregularity and obstruction of justice on his part.
COOPER: Valerie, let me ask you, what do you think is your best chance on appeal?
WASS: Well, there are a lot of issues, but the fact that I think that we have been able to demonstrate that Jackson was not on a Propofol drip on the day that he died, and the prosecution's case centered around such a theory, and I believe that I have been able to demonstrate that he was not on a Propofol drip, that he was only on a saline drip. COOPER: Well, they say that there was a slash in saline bag and the Propofol bottle was actually perched inside the saline bag. You say that's just -- that's just made up?
WASS: It's an absurd theory. There is a missing I.V. tubing line. They tried to say that he absconded with it in his pocket.
COOPER: Right. That Dr. Murray had found, right.
WASS: There's no evidence of that. The saline -- the cut saline bag and the Propofol bottle were found in a blue bag in a closet or a cupboard above Michael Jackson's closet, and it was found along with a lot of medical debris. It was really trash.
COOPER: Dr. Murray, you're coming out of jail, regardless of your appeal. What do you want to do? If -- whether you get your medical license back or not, say you don't get your medical license back. What do you want to do?
MURRAY: Well, Anderson, I want to continue to contribute to humanity and this world in a very significant way. I wanted every young child, every mother and father, uncle and aunt, to satisfy dreams that they would have and goals that they want to satisfy. I want to contribute to that.
COOPER: What does that mean?
MURRAY: I want to motivate people and to continue to do selfless acts of humanity and continue with my philanthropic traits towards helping mankind.
COOPER: How likely do you think it is that you can get your medical license back?
MURRAY: Anderson, I pray that, you know, hopefully there will be justice in this case because so far, I have only encountered injustice, and if I would prevail in my appeal and given another chance, I will do my utmost to totally set this aside and hopefully get back on the track where I will continue to help.
Remember I practiced for more than 20 years, Anderson. I never had a public reprimand, never had a medical board warning in all the licensed states, never had any litigation brought against me, nor medical malpractice lawsuits and I have saved a lot of lives and helped a lot of patients. Those who were with money and those who weren't, it did not matter to me.
COOPER: Let me ask you.
MURRAY: No one was turned back from my office.
COOPER: Let me just ask you finally. You say you were a friend of Michael Jackson, you cared about Michael Jackson, you cared about his children. That's how originally you took care of his children at a hotel in Vegas. That's how they initially met you. His children are now suing this company, AEG Live. There are some people who would say well, if you were -- really cared about them, why not testify about what you know in this lawsuit?
MURRAY: If I testify, I will testify very honestly. It is a sad thing when I look at what's going on in television because if Michael was alive he would be absolutely upset, he would be so unhappy with what is happening. Michael said to me I no longer want to be a bank for my family. But all you see is the continuation of that.
He had some real pains and I have had some stories of Michael that he has shared with me that I have not shared with the world. That's how it is. We have very, very humble lives and we both experienced pain.
You know what describes me, Anderson. Let me share something for you. This is important to me.
(Singing) He is a little boy that Santa Claus forgot, and goodness knows he did not want a lot. He wrote a note to Santa for some crayons and a toy. It broke his little heart when he found Santa hadn't come in the streets. He envied all those lucky boys but goodness knows he doesn't want a lot. I'm so sorry for that laddie who hasn't got a daddy. He's a little boy that Santa Claus forgot.
That song tells my story. That's how I grew up. I had no Christmases. I had no toy. I had nothing. I was (INAUDIBLE) for years. But as I grew up, my heart has been whole and my heart says to help, and all I do is to give. I want to give.
COOPER: Do you think --
MURRAY: I hope that this world could be a better place.
COOPER: Do you think money is at the root of -- I mean, you talked about the Jackson family, that things you had heard, that you were concerned about this trial, about the -- are you saying you think a quest for money by the family is partly to blame for this?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think Dr. Murray should be addressing the AEG trial at this time.
MURRAY: One thing I would like to say, I wish that one day I get a chance to tell all Michael's fans, people who really, really love him, what happened to Michael. They would really want to know. If they do find out, their heart would cringe and they would be in blatant pain.
COOPER: To those fans right now who are hearing you and blame you, you have no sense of guilt?
MURRAY: I have been a fan of Michael and I did everything when I discovered Michael in his condition to try to help him. I could have had a heart attack in my effort but I did the best I can. I wholeheartedly tried.
COOPER: But it was your patient who had the heart attack.
MURRAY: He what? COOPER: It was your patient whose heart stopped.
MURRAY: Listen, if Michael was a stranger or somebody I met in distress, I would make the same gallant effort.
COOPER: Dr. Murray, I appreciate you joining us tonight. Valerie Wass as well, thank you very much. Jeff Toobin, Mark Geragos join me next. We'll talk about what we just heard. Follow me in Twitter @andersoncooper, let me know what you think of what you heard.
Also ahead, breaking news in the killings of a Texas district attorney and his wife, that is them there. What their neighbor told our Gary Tuchman in an exclusive interview ahead tonight.
COOPER: You just heard a 360 exclusive, Dr. Conrad Murray's account from jail of Michael Jackson's death, his defense of how he treated an admittedly challenging patient. You heard him reach out to Michael Jackson's fans, even sing at the end.
Digging deeper now with senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin and criminal defense attorney, Mark Geragos, author of "Mistrial, An Inside Look at How the Criminal Justice System Works and Sometimes Doesn't." Jeffrey, first of all, what did you think of what you heard?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you know, I've heard you do a lot of interviews. I have never seen anyone break into song in the middle of one. That certainly was an unforgettable moment.
Something he said at the end really struck me about how Jackson's family has been -- had been using Michael as a source of money. In this lawsuit, you know, I think Conrad Murray is not a good doctor. There's no doubt about that.
But it is also true that he is not the only person responsible for Michael Jackson's death. Michael Jackson himself is responsible, his bums and leeches in his family who are now even in death trying to profit off him.
So I think sorting out the responsibility for his death is going to be difficult in this case because Conrad Murray is not the only person responsible here.
COOPER: It also seems like clearly, I mean, people in this company based on some e-mails, clearly knew there were some issues going on with Michael Jackson. Whether there are issues going on with other performers and this was unique, I'm not sure. Mark, what did you think about what you heard?
MARK GERAGOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I was just wondering if this had been somewhere else, would you have put that last 30 seconds on the "Ridiculist" and how did you keep a straight face towards the end. This is precisely why criminal defense lawyers, you generally have to knock them over the head with a baseball bat before you have their clients get on the stand.
Valerie did her best and it was a herculean effort to keep him under control but that's a real problem. The AEG thing, you saw precisely, and I wouldn't be surprised by the way, Anderson, if AEG at some point tries to get this interview in, because clearly, he can assert the fifth.
They can prevent him from testifying, but if he's declared unavailable, there are some exceptions to the hearsay rule where they might be able to get this in because him talking does not help the family. His conviction does help the family.
It helps the family immensely, especially because you've got these, what I consider to be smoking gun e-mails from AEG put in front of the right jury in downtown L.A., I could see a big verdict in this case.
COOPER: One of the e-mails that Mark is referring to is an e- mail from an AEG employee saying that Kenny Ortega, one of the guys involved in this concert, in the rehearsals, should explain to Dr. Murray essentially his responsibility and who's paying his bill.
TOOBIN: Right. The whole situation was so completely unhealthy, $150,000 a month for a single client. That obviously is ripe for all sorts of unnatural, improper medical care.
COOPER: That's what Dr. Murray is paying a guy who has debts. Clearly it's hard for a doctor in that position with some big celebrity client to say I'm going to walk away from that.
TOOBIN: To say no, but it wasn't just Michael trying to get him ready for this tour. It was AEG. They also had a tremendous incentive. And you know, I think about this, the Jackson family. Like remember right after he died, we sat here and we heard over and over again, Michael was in great shape, Michael was terrific. He was raring to go.
Now when it's convenient for them, they say, everybody was mistreating him and AEG is terrible and Dr. Murray was terrible, just so they can get more money. They have treated poor Michael, I mean, Michael was a genius and he was a troubled person. But he had an enormous gift, and the rest of them just leeched off him and leeched off him. Be careful what they ask for because they are going to point out in this lawsuit just how screwed up Michael's life was.
COOPER: The Jackson family, the mom and the kids, they are asking for multi billion dollars.
TOOBIN: Forty billion dollars.
COOPER: Everything Michael Jackson would have earned from the time he died through the rest of his life.
GERAGOS: Right. And remember, the people who are the plaintiffs in this action are Katherine and the kids. So you know, notwithstanding everything Jeff is saying, those kids are as sympathetic, I was very close to them years ago when the Department of Children's Services investigation took place.
They are great kids. They've turned out by all accounts to be still very good, healthy and well-balanced kids. I'm just not so sure that when you're talking about jurors who are making $15 a day and they've got a doctor who is being paid $150,000 a month.
That the average juror is going to say you know what, I've got this e-mail that says make sure he knows who's paying the freight, that they didn't understand that they had some huge investment here and they didn't want it to go south, and they were going to get him on that stage come hell or high water. I just tell you, I could see an astronomical jury verdict in this case.
COOPER: Very quickly, Jeff, what do you think the chances are Dr. Murray is on appeal, A, to win his appeal, overturn his conviction and also get his license back?
TOOBIN: The vast, vast majority of cases are not overturned on appeal. This was an odd case in some respects. Frankly, the fact that the dermatologist, Arnie Kline, did not testify, I think that's a significant issue.
COOPER: They looked at his medical records, but he did not testify.
TOOBIN: He didn't testify. I think chances are he will not -- the convictions will not be overturned.
COOPER: Mark, do you agree with that?
GERAGOS: Yes. It's a 98 percent or 97 percent or 98 percent affirming of criminal convictions on appeal in California. This trial judge is somebody who is extremely bright. He makes a bulletproof record. I agree with Jeff. I think the best issue here was not letting Kline get up there -- not letting the defense call Kline, amongst other things, but you know, it's 2 percent chance of winning.
COOPER: All right, got to leave it there. Jeff Toobin, Mark Geragos, thank you very much.
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